[Call to Order, Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance]
[00:00:12]
COUNCILMEMBER GARDNER WILL BE A FEW MINUTES LATE.
BEFORE WE BEGIN, WE WILL START WITH INVOCATION AND PLEDGES.
PRAY WITH ME. LORD WE COME TO YOU THIS AFTERNOON TO PRAY FOR YOUR BLESSINGS AND GUIDANCE.
WE GIVE THIS TIME TO YOU AS WE COME TOGETHER TO DO THE BUSINESS OF THE CITY. I PRAY YOU GUIDE OUR CONVERSATION AND OUR THOUGHT PROCESSES TO ULTIMATELY LAND ON AND MAKE DECISIONS THAT BENEFIT ALL COMMUNITY OF THE MIDLOTHIAN THAT WE'RE ELECTED TO REPRESENTATIVE.
SO WE GIVE THIS TIME TO YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS WE PRAY.
AMEN. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND
JUSTICE FOR ALL. >> I HONOR THE TEXAS FLAG.
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THEE. TEXAS, ONE STATE, UNDER GOD, ONE
[2023-394]
AND INDIVISIBLE. >> ALL RIGHT.
COUNCIL. WE ARE HERE THIS AFTERNOON TO FOLLOW UP ON A TOPIC THAT WAS DISCUSSED EXTENSIVELY DURING THE BUDGET PROCESS AND DIRECTION WAS GIVEN TO STAFF TO BRING THIS TOPIC UP AGAIN IN A WORKSHOP SETTING.
SO HERE WE ARE THIS AFTERNOON TO DO THAT.
I HAVE ASKED STAFF TO PUT TOGETHER A MAP THAT YOU SEE BEFORE YOU. AND THIS OUTLINES OUR ESD, CITY DISTRICT AND SCHOOL DISTRICT. YOU WILL SEE THE PROPOSED MUD DEVELOPMENTS THAT ARE CURRENTLY BEING APPLIED FOR AT THIS DATE.
WITH THAT, THIS IS NOT A MEETING WHERE WE'RE GOING TO MAKE ANY FINAL DETERMINATIONS OR DECISIONS.
WE WILL HAVE GOOD DIALOGUE BACK AND FORTH, ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS AND GET AS MUCH INFORMATION THAT WE CAN POSSIBLY GAIN IN ORDER TO GIVE STAFF DIRECTION ON HOW TO PLAN GOING FORWARD, AND WITH THAT, I WILL TURN IT OVER TO CHRIS OR CLYDE AND OPEN IT UP FOR QUESTIONS AND CONVERSATION OF STAFF.
>> THANK YOU, MAYOR. AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS WAS DISCUSSED UNDER THE BUDGET AND WE WERE TOLD TO BRING THIS BACK TO A WORKSHOP, YOU DESCRIBED THE MAP IN FRONT OF YOU ALL.
I KNOW THE CHIEF AND I AND CLYDE AND I ARE AVAILABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS. I SEE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE DSD BOARD. I'M SURE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS THAT I'M SURE THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO ANSWER ANY OF THOSE YOU MIGHT HAVE. SO REALLY WE DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A FORMAL PRESENTATION. I KNOW CLYDE HAS OTHER MAPS IF YOU WANTED TO SEE MORE DETAILS ABOUT THE PROPOSED MUD DEVELOPMENTS THAT WE HAVE SOME OF THEM AREN'T MUDS BUT WE HAVE PRELIMINARY SITE PLANS AND WHAT SOME OF THOSE LOOK LIKE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WILL LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY ARE FINALLY BUILT. WITH THAT, WE WILL JUST KIND OF OPEN IT UP FOR THE COUNCIL AND ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.
>> JUST FOR CLARITY, ON THE MAP ITSELF, IF YOU LOOK AT THE PINK LINES, THAT IS OUTLINING THE ESD.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE RED LINES, THAT'S OUTLINING THE CITY LIMITS. AND THEN THE GOLD LINE WHICH IS REALLY NON-POINT IS OR ETJ. SO, COUNCIL, DISCUSS.
ASK QUESTIONS. LET'S DIVE INTO IT.
>> YEAH, HOW LONG HAVE WE BEEN SERVICING THE ESD?
WHEN DID WE START DOING THAT? >> MAYOR, BEFORE WE GET GOING, DO I MIND IF I INTRODUCE THE BOARD? I DON'T KNOW IF WE EVER HAD THE ESD BOARD AND THE COUNCIL IN THE
SAME ROOM. >> DANNY LONG IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE ESD BOARD. VICE PRESIDENT, WELL, BILL HOLMES IS UP HERE. AND THEN TIM RAVEN IS THE VICE PRESIDENT AND THEN TOM MANNING IN THE BACK IS THE DISTRICT MANAGER I BELIEVE NOW IS HIS TITLE.
THEY'RE APPOINTED BY THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS.
ACTUALLY, TOM YOU'RE AN EMPLOYEE OF THE ESD.
>> YES. >> SO IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS THEY'RE THE ONES THAT WE ENTER INTO THIS CONTRACT WITH.
THEY TAKE THE REVENUE AND DISTRIBUTING THOSE FUNDS OUT FOR FIRE AND EMS SERVICE. IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION, CHIEF WOULD BE THE BEST ARCHITECT OF THE HISTORY HERE, I WOULD SAY WE'RE GOING ON ABOUT 40 YEARS OF RELATIONSHIP THROUGH A CONTRACT EVEN WITH A FIRE DISTRICT OR AN EMERGENCY
[00:05:05]
SERVICES DISTRICT. PRIOR TO ANY OF THOSE TYPES OF CONTRACTS, THE SERVICE AREA, AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS BEEN SERVICED BY THE MIDLOTHIAN FIRE DEPARTMENT.>> DO WE KNOW INITIALLY WHAT YEAR WAS THAT THAT WE STARTED IT? THAT WE ACTUALLY ENTERED.
>> I BELIEVE IT WAS AROUND 1985, '85, '86 IS WHEN THE FIRST FIRE DISTRICT WAS FORMED AND TRANSITIONED INTO WHAT IT CALLED EMERGENCY SERVICES DISTRICT TODAY.
TOM, AM I PRET ACCURATE ON THAT? >> WAS AT THAT TIME, I'M ASSUMING WAS SOME OF THAT ESD, DID THAT END UP BEING AREAS THAT WE ULTIMATELY ANNEXED OR WE HAD ANNEXED AT A LATER TIME?
>> WE HAVE TAKEN IN PORTIONS OF THE ESD THROUGH ANNEXATION AND DURING THAT PROCESS, FOR INSTANCE, THE ESD WHEN THEY GO OUT AND BORROW MONEY, WHETHER WE ANNEXED SOME OF THOSE AREAS FROM THEM, WE TOOK AWAY SOME OF THEIR PROPERTY VALUE THAT WAS USED TO PAY BACK THEIR DEBT. SO WE HAD TO PAY MONEY TO THE ESD TO COMPENSATE OR OFF SET THAT LOSS FOR THE DEBT THEY INCURRED WITH THE CITY OF OVILLA.
>> TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THIS.
THE ESD CULTURE IS SO FOREIGN TO ME.
YOU SAID SOMETHING THE STATE APPOINTS THE BOARD MEMBERS?
>> COUNTY COMMISSIONERS. >> I'M SORRY.
>> THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID. >> YEAH.
HOW MANY BOARD MEMBERS DO WE HAVE?
>> I BELIEVE FIVE. IS THAT CORRECT?
>> FIVE. AND THEY'RE ALL FIVE APPOINTED BY THE ELLIS COUNTY, COUNTY COMMISSIONERS.
>> WHAT FUNDING DO THEY GET THROUGH THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
COURT? >> ZERO I WOULD ASSUME.
ALL THEIR FUNDING COMES DIRECTLY THROUGH THE CONSTITUENTS OR TAXPAYERS WITHIN THEIR SERVICE AREA.
>> WHEN GOES THROUGH THE STATE AND BACK TO THE ESD?
>> NO. COMES STRAIGHT TO THE ESD, THEY'RE JUST A CONDUIT. BASICALLY MONEY COMES IN AND THAT IS DIVIDED BETWEEN US AND THE CITY OF OVILLA CURRENTLY.
ACTUALLY, THEY JUST STARTED PROVIDING SOME FUNDS TO VENUS, THE CITY OF VENUS BECAUSE OF PATRIOT ESTATES.
THEY WERE AREAS THEY HAD TO RECOGNIZE AS BEING IN VENUS.
>> ARE WE ABLE TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE ESD PRESIDENT?
>> YEAH, I WOULD ASK HE COMES UP AND SPEAKS TO THE MICROPHONE FOR
THE RECORD. >> HIT THE BUTTON, TOM.
WHEN IT GOES RED, YOU'RE HOT >> I'M TOMMANNING.
-- TOM MANNING. I BELIEVE IN 2017, I MOVED INTO THE CITY OF MIDLOTHIAN. I WAS NO LONGER ELIGIBLE TO SERVE ON THE BOARD BECAUSE YOU MUST LIVE IN THE ESD.
AT THAT POINT I BECAME THE DISTRICT MANAGER OR CONTRACT EMPLOYEE OF THE BOARD. I SERVED AT THE PLEASURE OF THE FIVE BOARD MEMBERS. SO.
>> SO MY FIRST QUESTION WOULD BE.
HOW MANY DIFFERENT STATIONS DO Y'ALL HAVE IN THE EMERGENCY SERVICES DISTRICT PLURAL IN THE COUNTY OF ELLIS?
>> WELL THERE'S NO STATIONS IN THE ESD AND WE CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OF MIDLOTHIAN FOR THE THREE FIRE STATIONS AND OVILLA HAS A STATION. THE NORTHEAST AREA, PRETTY LARGE AREA. VENUS FOUND OUT OR CALLED US WANTING TO START AN ESD. I HAD NEVER REALLY LOOKED AND TURNS OUT, WHEN THEY ANNEXED PATRIOT ESTATES, THEY NEVER DID AN DE-ANNEXATION ORDER. WE WORKED OUT AN AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY OF VENUS TO WHERE WE PAY THEM NOT ALL OF THE MONEY WE GET FROM PATRIOT ESTATES. THIS WILL BE OUR SECOND YEAR OF
THAT AGREEMENT >> MY QUESTION WAS AND I DIDN'T PHRASE IT CORRECTLY, ARE THERE ANY STATIONS WITHIN ELLIS COUNTY -- COUNTY DOES HAVE FIRE STATIONS.
>> WELL, THEY'RE NOT COUNTY. THEIR ESDS.
THE ESD MAY PEARL, THAT IS ALL FUNDED BY ESD 1.
[00:10:05]
THE CITY MAY CONTRIBUTE. THEY CONVERTED FROM A VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT OWNERSHIP TO AN ESD.SAME THING WITH ITALY, PARIS AND SOME OF THE OTHER CITIES TOO.
>> SO WHICH OF THOSE ARE VOLUNTEER AND WHICH ARE PAID
STAFF? >> WELL, MAYPEARL IS PAID.
PARIS IS PAID. I SAY PAID, SOME MAYBE PART TIME PEOPLE. THEY ARE HAVING 24/7 ESD 7 FOR 24 HOURS. THEY ARE IN WAXAHACHIE.
>> THE CITY OF WAXAHACHIE DOES NOT HAVE --
>> NO, HISTORICALLY HAVE NEVER RESPONDED OUTSIDE THEIR CITY
LIMITS. >> I TRIED TO REQUEST WITH STATION NUMBERS. THE STATION AT MAY PEARL, A
THAT IS A STAFFED FIRE STATION. >> YES.
THEY BOUND THE LAST YEAR. >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CLARIFY, WHEN YOU SAY STAFF FIRE STATION, THEY USE PART TIME PERSONNEL. I BELIEVE THEY ARE STILL A COMBINATION. DO THEY STILL HAVE VOLUNTEERS
>> AND THEY'RE NOT RUNNING A PARAMEDIC ENGINE.
IT'S NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF SERVICE.
>> I ASSUME YOU FOLKS BEING IN THE EMERGENCY SERVICES PROVISIONS AREA, YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN SOME DEEP CONVERSATIONS WITH THE COUNTY ABOUT SAFETY PROVISIONS WITH THE
INCOMING VOLUME OF THE MUDS. >> WELL, WE HAVEN'T BEEN INCLUDED IN THESE DISCUSSIONS WITH ANY OTHER THAN I HAVE DISCUSSED WITH IS IT PROVIDENT REALTY ON PRAIRIE RIDGE AND A DISCUSSION WITH HUFFINES COMMUNITY.
THAT WON'T BE OUR PROBLEM MUCH LONGER BECAUSE THAT WILL BE IN THE CITY OF GRAND PRAIRIE. THEY ARE GOING TO ANNEX THAT.
THEY CAN OF COURSE, THE DEVELOPER IS AGREEING TO BE ANNEXED AND PART OF THE SOUTH POINT IS THAT -- THEY HAVE, I MEAN IF YOU GO TO THEIR WEBSITE GRAND PRAIRIE, THEY HAVE A HUNDRED PAGE REPORT ON THAT. SO.
>> THIS IS FOR HUFFINES. >> IT WILL NOT INCLUDE PRAIRIE RIDGE BECAUSE IT'S IN ELLIS COUNTY FRESH WATER DISTRICT 1.
THEY HAVE AT THE MOMENT, AFTER THE LAST BOND ELECTION, THEY HAVE $230 MILLION IN DEBT. THE CITY, THE ONLY WAY, ONE I BELIEVE BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN LAW, THE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO AGREE, SO THAT WOULD PREVENT ANNEXATION.
THE FRESH WATER DISTRICT 1 WILL STAY IN ESD 2 FOR I WOULD ASSUME FOREVER. SO.
THAT AND I BELIEVE THAT DEVELOPMENT IS MAYBE ABOUT HALF BUILT OUT ON THE ELLIS COUNTY. WELL, ON THE ELLIS COUNTY SIDE.
ALL RIGHT. WELL, THAT IS WE'RE WORKING ON A FIVE-YEAR PLAN AND WANT TO ENGAGE WITH PROVIDENT AND FIND OUT WHAT ARE THE PLANS AS FAR AS THE TIME FRAME AS FAR AS DEVELOPMENT IN THAT AREA. BUT, WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT FRESH WATER DISTRICT TWO WHICH IS THE HUFFINES COMMUNITY.
AND THEY'RE GOING TO DE-ANNEX THAT OR THE FRESH WATER DISTRICT, SO THAT WAS A BIG CONCERN OF OURS.
I BROUGHT IT UP AT A MEETING FIVE YEARS AGO.
I SAID WE WOULD HAVE TO BUILD OUR OWN FIRE STATION IN THE AREA, AND NOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ANNEX THAT, I DON'T -- I MEAN THAT WON'T BE A PROBLEM. I THINK THE PRAIRIE RIDGE BY ITSELF IS SERVICEABLE CURRENTLY. PLUS, GRAND PRAIRIE IS PUTTING A FIRE STATION RIGHT THERE ON DAVIS ROAD AND WE WOULD COULD CONTRACT WITH THEM AND MANSFIELD HAS A FIRE STATION OF 663 OR I
>> YES. >> IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THE CITY OF GRAND PRAIRIE OR THE PEOPLE IN THE PRAIRIE RIDGE AREA YOU HAVE BEEN CONTACTED AND ASKED TO DE-ANNEX THAT AREA?
[00:15:07]
>> PROVIDENT CALLED AND SAID WE WANT YOU TO RELEASE THE AREA.
I SAID WE CAN'T. HE SAID I DON'T UNDERSTAND.
I SAID WELL THAT WAS A SPECIAL DISTRICT THAT WAS CREATED BY THE VOTERS AND THE ONLY WAY IT CAN BE UNCREATED IS BY THE VOTERS.
AND I SAID WE HAVE NO REASON TO RELEASE ANYTHING AND LEGALLY WE CAN'T RELEASE IT. SO THE REASON FOR THAT IS GRAND PRAIRIE WHICH IT'S ON THE LIST TO TALK, WE NEED TO TALK TO THEM AND THE ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER. I WOULD LIKE IT MEET WITH HER
AND DISCUSS THAT, THAT AREA. >> IN OTHER WORDS FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, THOSE PORTIONALITIES WILL HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISION
TO SELF ANNEX. >> BUT I MEAN REALISTICALLY, THERE ARE 300 AND SOMETHING HOMES.
WELL, BUT I DON'T THINK THEY COULD ANYWAY BECAUSE OF THE DEBT. BECAUSE I WAS TOLD, I THINK CLYDE TOLD ME OR DON TOLD ME BACK, SOMEBODY IN PLANNING BACK 10 YEARS AGO THAT ONCE THE DISTRICT ISSUES DEBT, THAT IF A CITY ANNEXES, THEY HAVE TO ASSUME THAT DEBT.
THAT $230 MILLION DEBT WOULD INCREASE GRAND PRAIRIE'S DEBT AND THEIR DEBT RATE IS 20 SOMETHING CENTS.
>> ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HUFFINES OR PRAIRIE RIDGE?
>> IT'S COSTING THEM OVER $0.50 TO SERVICE THE DEBT.
IF GRAND PRAIRIE ANNEXED IT, WHEN THEY COULDN'T ANYWAY, I
DON'T BELIEVE. >> EVEN IF THEY COULD, IT WOULD REQUIRE SELF ANNEXATION IT.
>> HEY TOM THAT'S FOR PROVIDENCE.
>> I'M 99.9 % SURE THAT WILL WITHIN A YEAR WILL NOT BE AN ESD 2. THE DALLAS BUSINESS JOURNAL HAD FOUR ARTICLES IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS.
>> DOES GRAND PRAIRIE FORM AN ESD?
>> NO THEY ARE DOING MMD. THEY HAVE ALREADY GOT THE FIRE STATION, BEING BUILT AND IN THEIR MASTER PLAN FOR THE SOUTH GATE, IT'S CALLED SOUTH GATE, THEY HAVE A TOWN SQUARE PLAN THAT'S GOING TO BE BETWEEN PRAIRIE RIDGE AND WHAT IS BUFFALO HILLS AREA OR CLOSE TO THE LAME STONE LODGE AREA AND PLAN ON PUTTING A SECOND FIRE STATION THERE.
THIS DEVELOPMENT GOES ALL THE WAY TO JOHNSON COUNTY.
IT WILL BE IN THE CITY OF GRAND PRAIRIE.
IN THE BUSINESS JOURNAL SAID 50 TO 70,000 PEOPLE IN 30 YEARS
INDUSTRIAL IN THAT COUNTY >> YES, IT DOES GO TO JOHNSON COUNTY. THAT WOULD NOT BE, LIKE I SAID,
THAT'S HOW BIG IT IS. >> SO MY QUESTION EARLIER WHICH
REVOLVED AROUND MUDS -- >> YES.
>> AND IF Y'ALL HAVE BEEN IN CONVERSATION WITH THE COUNTY, THAT'S THE ROOT OF THE CORE WITH ME.
>> IT'S LEGITIMATE. >> THE REASON I'M ASKING IS I'M INTERESTED IN THE DEPTH OF THE CONVERSATION WE'RE REALIZING IS A LOOK AT A MAP AND VACANT SPACE EVEN WITHIN OUR OWN ESD.
>> YES. >> I REALIZE YOU MENTION SOME COULD BE TAKEN IN BY THE CITIES, IT HASN'T HAPPENED YET.
ESPECIALLY IF IT ISN'T TAKEN IN BY THE CITY, WE COULD BE PLACED INTO A POSITION WITHIN A REASONABLE PERIOD OF TIME I'M
GOING TO SAY 12 TO 18 YEARS. >> YES.
>> TO WHERE THE ESD POPULATION COULD SURPASS OUR OWN INTERIOR POPULATION. IT'S POSSIBLE.
>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S THAT MUCH RAW LAND IN THE ESD.
>> THE PROBLEM IS, I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
THE FORCES THAT WE'RE FACING WITHIN MUDS ARE TYPICALLY HIGHLY
THAT'S WHY THEY WANT TO DO A MUD.
>> WE FOR US HAVE A LOT OF DIVERSITY FROM OUR SMALLER LOTS WHICH ARE VERY MINIMAL OR 50S. THEY ARE LOOKING AT DOING AN ENTIRE SUBDIVISION WITH 50S. AN EXAMPLE IS HIGH VIEW RANCH WHICH IS ONLY 3000 PEOPLE. IT'S GOING TO HAVE 31584 PEOPLE.
NOW NOT ALL OF THAT IS IN THE ESD
>> WELL, IT'S ONLY -- >> JUST ABOUT 800 ACRES.
>> I CALCULATED 572. >> IS IT 600 OR 800?
[00:20:01]
>> THAT'S WHAT -- OKAY. I GOT YOU.
>> AND WE'RE LIKE 572 WHICH IS 17% AND THEN IS THE, THE ESD THAT WILL HAVE AN ISSUE IS ESD 6, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE 1600 ACRES OF HIGH DENSITY HOMES MOST LIKELY.
>> THE CONCERN OF MINE IS, WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM
>> ASKING US WHAT WE'RE DOING ABOUT ESDS.
WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM OUR RESIDENTS WHAT ARE YOU
>> THIS IS WHAT I KNOW DEVELOPERS NEED TO MAKE A MUD WORK. THEY NEED SERVICES THAT ARE
SO THEY CAN GET THE PROJECT DONE AND WALK
>> SO THE CONCERN ON MY PART AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SO INTERESTED
ON CONVERSATIONS COUNTY WISE. >> YES.
I FEEL AS THOUGH AS LONG AS WE OFFER DEVELOPERS ON THE HIGH DENSITY MUDS, THE ABILITY THE TO HAVE EMERGENCY SERVICES, IT WILL NEVER GIVE THE COUNTY LEVEL THE ABILITY TO GO TO THE STATE AND SAY, IF YOU DON'T CHANGE SOMETHING, TO WHERE WE CAN MAKE SOME DECISIONS, WE HAVE EMERGENCY SERVICES PROBLEMS OUT HERE. BUT IF IT'S HANDLED, WE GOT A PROBLEM. HERE'S THE BIG PROBLEM I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE MOST. EVERYTHING I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED WITH, WITH THE GOVERNMENT IS NEVER EASIER TO GET OUT
>> ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING EMERGENCY SERVICES.
I OTHER THING I LEARNED SINCE I SERVED AND I'M NOT SAYING IT SHOULD BE. EMERGENCY SERVICES ARE SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE JUSTIFIABLY BREAK EVEN POINT.
THEY'RE NOT THERE TO MAKE INCOME.
>> NO. THEY'RE THERE TO PROVIDE A
FOR LIFE AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS THROUGH SAFETY.
SO THE CONCERN I HAVE IS, WE'RE KIND OF AT THIS TIPPING POINT WHERE THE MUDS HAVEN'T REALLY BROKE GROUND HERE YET.
WE KNOW THEY'RE FIXING TO. AS I LOOK DOWN THROUGH THE NUMBERS, JUST THE MUDS WE HAVE WHICH NOT HIGHLAND LAKES WE WON'T COVER THAT. ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT 55,000 PEOPLE JUST IN WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY LOOKING AT.
>> WE'RE AT CITY OF 42,000. IT MAKES ME SIT BACK AND SAW WOWZERS. WHAT IF WE HAVE, WE'RE ALREADY AT ABOUT 13,000 TO 14,000 IN THE ESD
>> WELL, I'M COMING UP. 4306 HOMES AS OF JANUARY OF THIS YEAR AND AT 2.8, THAT'S 12,000, RIGHT AT 12,000.
>> YEAH. SO IT HASN'T CHANGED A WHOLE LOT. I THINK THAT'S DUE TO ANN
ANNEXATION. >> I'M ONE OF THE GUYS THAT DIDN'T VOTE FOR ANNEXATION. ON THE FLIP SIDE, I BELIEVE THAT A CITY SERVE WHAT IS IS WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES.
>> YES. >> SO I'M TRYING TO WEIGH ALL THIS OUT AND THAT'S WHAT ALL THESE QUESTIONS ARE REVOLVING AROUND. MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS WE TURN AROUND IN FIVE TO EIGHT YEARS AND WE'RE SERVICING 40,000.
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE IN THE ESD IN THAT MANY YEARS.
I MEAN, IF WE DO A 10% FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS INCREASE IN POPULATION, WE'RE GOING TO BE SITTING A LITTLE LESS THAN
20,000 PEOPLE. >> IT WILL BE WAY MORE THAN
THAT. >> IF YOU LOOK AT THE LAST FOUR YEARS, THE MOST WE HAD IS 100 HOMES.
WE HAVE BEEN IN HISTORIC BUILDING.
>> BUT YOU'RE GOING OFF -- LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY.
THERE ALL OF A SUDDEN ARE 27 MUDS BREAKING GROUND OR TRYING TO BREAK GROUND IN ELLIS COUNTY. THIS IS A NEW PHENOMENA.
WE ARE GOING OFF OLD CONSTRUCTION.
THE CONCERNING PART IS, WE DON'T SEE A PLACE ON THE COUNTY SIDE YET TO CONTROL THE VOLUME OF INFLOW BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY FROM THE LEGISLATIVE SIDE.
>> IT'S TCEQ GAME THAT'S DONE. SO, THERE IS, THIS IS MY THEORY.
THAT WHEN THE DEVELOPERS SENSE THEY HAVE A HIRABLE COST
[00:25:01]
EFFECTIVE WOULD BE THE BEST WAY TO PUT IT.EMERGENCY SERVICES OPPORTUNITY, I WOULD BE GETTING ON, WHOEVER OFFERS ESDS, I WOULD BE PUNCHING UP IN THERE AS FAST AS I COULD TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT. AND THAT'S MY PRIMARY CONCERN AS WE EVOLVE. HOW DO WE GET THROUGH THIS? THAT'S TO LET YOU KNOW MY QUESTION.
>> BUT ALSO, I MEAN I DON'T BELIEVE THAT DID HIGHLAND LAKES AND THE CITY WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE 800 ACRES THAT OUR AREA -- IN TALKING WITH CHIEF MCCASKALL WILL BE AN UNDUE BURDEN ON THE CURRENT LEVEL. I DID DISCUSS ADDING A SECOND APPARATUS AT THAT STATION AND FUNDED BY THE ESD THAT WOULD BE ABLE TO RESPOND IN THE AREAS DOWN SOUTH.
NOW, AS FAR AS CIRCLE S, THAT AREA IS WITHIN THE AREA OF THE MAY PEARL FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE VENUS FIRE DEPARTMENT.
WE HAVE OPTIONS TO ALSO CONTRACT WITH THEM.
AND I WILL BE THE FIRST TO SAY AND I HAVE TOLD CHIEF MCCASKALL THIS AND I WISH I MADE THIS CLEAR IN THE PAST TO THE COUNCIL, THE ESD BOARD DOES NOT EXPECT THE CITY TO PROVIDE SERVICES THEY ARE UNABLE TO PROVIDE.
WE ARE -- AND I USE THE EXAMPLE OF THE FRESH WATER DISTRICT 2, WHICH IS NOT GOING TO BE A PROBLEM BUT I SAID LOOKING AT A MAP ONCE THAT'S BUILT OUT, THERE WAS NO WAY THAT STATION 1 COULD ADEQUATELY SERVICE THAT AREA, THE DISTANCES FROM 287 ALL THE WAY TO THE SOUTH END OF THE LAKE WOULD BE MUCH FURTHER THAN FIVE MILES AND JUST WITH THE DENSITY, SO, I MEAN, WE KNOW THERE ARE LIMITATIONS AND I WOULD SAY AND I TOLD CHIEF MCCASKALL THIS.
IF CIRCLE S WAS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM AND WE SAID LOOK, THAT CAN EASILY BE SOLVED WITH ONE SENTENCE IN OUR CURRENT CONTRACT. WE COULD SAY, THIS CONTRACT INCLUDES ALL THE AREA EXCEPT THE SPECIAL DISTRICT OF THE CIRCLE S MUD DISTRICT OR WHATEVER IT ENDS UP BEING CALL.
WE COULD CONTRACT WITH MAY PEARL AND VENUS AND HAVE SOME LIMITED SERVICES FOR MIDLOTHIAN BUT I, WE UNDERSTAND THERE ARE POSSIBLY GOING TO BE LIMITATIONS ON OR DEMANDS THAT EXCEED CURRENT LEVELS OR THE LEVELS THAT Y'ALL ARE ABLE TO PROVIDE.
>> SO, IS IT, DYLAN, YOU CAN HELP ANSWER THIS.
IS IT TRUE THERE ARE 2 ESDS IN ELLIS COUNTY?
>> THERE ARE NINE. >> MIKE, LET'S LET OTHERS ASK
>> TOM WOULD BE BETTER TO ANSWER THAT.
I AM FAMILIAR WITH ESD 2 >> DO YOU KNOW WHAT CITIES
THOSE ARE ROUGHLY? >> PALMER, ITALY, WAXAHACHIE, THE RURAL PART OF WAXAHACHIE. FERRIS, RED OAK.
CRYSTAL, IT'S A COMMUNITY, AVALON IS A COMMUNITY.
AND MAY PEARL AND, NOW, THAT'S NAV NAVARRO. BASICALLY ALL OF THESE SMALL COMMUNITIES ARE SHIPPING THAT RESPONSIBILITY OFF TO THE ESD AND SAYING YOU PROVIDE THE SERVICES.
>> IT CONVERTED THE VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT TO AN ESD
>> SO DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH AND THIS WILL BE MY LAST QUESTION
FOR AT LEAST 10 MINUTES. >> I AM GOING TO START THE
TIMER. >> DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH THIS RESPONSIBILITY LEVEL BEING PLACED ON THE CITIES THE WAY IT'S SET UP WITH THE MUD INFILTRATION THAT'S COMING IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED OF THE CITIES TO TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PROVIDING SERVICE FOR COUNTY RESIDENTS?
>> NO. BECAUSE ALL THESE AREAS ARE ESD. AND THE CITY IS -- LIKE FERRIS
[00:30:02]
AND MAY PEARL, THE CITY IS ESD. >> I UNDERSTAND IT'S THERE.
HERE'S THE BIG QUESTION, IF THE, WHICH I BELIEVE IS THE STATE'S PURPOSE, IF THE ESD AREA, THE COUNTY OUTSIDE OF THE CITIES START TO EVOLVE IN A MUCH GREATER DENSITY PATTERN, AT WHAT, WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE COSTS ARE.
WHICH WE SHOULDN'T BECAUSE IT'S A SERVICE.
BUT FROM A CITY PERSPECTIVE, YOU HAVE TO PULL BACK SOME TIME AND SAY HOW IS THIS WORKING OUT? WE JUST PAY IT IN THE CITY.
>> THERE'S ONLY ONE OPERATING MUD IN, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY HAVE ANY OR ONE TAXING MUD AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY BUILDING THERE YET
>> WOULD YOU AGREE, THERE'S 27 COMING IN THE NEXT 15 YEARS.
>> WELL, THEY APPLIED FOR THEM. >> FOR WHAT I KNOW ABOUT MUDS IN NORTH HARRIS COUNTY. THAT IS HOW NORTH HARRIS COUNTY WAS BUILT AND THEY HAD ESDS INVOLVED AND THEY MADE IT WORK.
I KNOW IT CAN WORK BECAUSE IT DID.
. >> THE CITY HAS NEVER HISTORICALLY ANSWERED OUTSIDE THE CITY.
THEY CREATED THE WAXAHACHIE RURAL AND AN ESD SOME TIME IN LATE 80S, EARLY 90'S. IF YOU LIVE IN THE WAXAHACHIE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND YOU DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY, THEN YOU LIVE IN ESD 6, WHICH IS THE EVERYBODY IN THE WAXAHACHIE SCHOOL
DISTRICT THAT'S NOT IN THE CITY. >> THE CITY OF WAXAHACHIE
NOT AT ALL. THE CITY OF WAXAHACHIE RESPONDS IN THE CITY LIMITS AND EVERYTHING THAT'S OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS BUT IN WAXAHACHIE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS ANSWERED BY
>> SO JUST SO I CAN CLARIFY, ESD 6 TAKES IN THEIR REVENUE AND FUND PART TIME FIREFIGHTERS AND VOLUNTEERS TO RESPOND TO ESD 6.
THE CITY OF WAXAHACHIE HAS NOT RELATIONSHIP TO THEM.
THE ESD TAKES IN FUNDS THAT SURROUND OUR COMMUNITY AND CONTRACT WITH THE CITY OF MIDLOTHIAN TO PROVIDE SERVICE.
THAT WOULD BE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN US AND WAXAHACHIE? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? OKAY.
>> I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS. WHO DETERMINES THE BOUNDARY
LINES OF THE ESD? >> IT WAS DETERMINED BY THE VOTERS WHETHER IT WAS CREATED AND JUST A QUICK HISTORY ON THAT. THE CITIZENS THAT LIVED IN THE COUNTY DIDN'T GO AND RUN RUCK SHOT.
IT WAS CHIEF TROUT AND PICKARD FROM OVILLA.
THEY GOT TOGETHER AND SAID, YOU KNOW IF WE CREATE A TAXING DISTRICT AND RECEIVE MONEY FROM OUTSIDE THE CITIES, WE WILL BE ABLE TO STAFF AND EQUIP THE FIRE DEPARTMENT.
SO THEY WERE GETTING NO REVENUE FOR THE CALLS THEY WERE MAKING.
AND THEN AS SOON AS THEY CREATED THE ESD, THEY STARTED GETTING
REVENUE. >> THAT WAS PARTIALLY THE CITY PUSHING. THEY WERE STILL GOING OUTSIDE THE CITY BOUNDARIES TO SERVICE CALLS AND THERE WAS TOO MUCH WEAR AND TEAR ON THE VEHICLES AND THEY WEREN'T RECEIVING
>> THE CHIEFS WENT TOGETHER AND SAID LET'S CREATE THIS ESD OR
FIRE DISTRICT. >> SO, MY NEXT QUESTION IS AND SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, I REMEMBER THE BUDGETED AMOUNT BUT 13% OF THE CALL. OUR EXPENSE WAS SOMETHING LIKE 1.5 OR 1 FIND $7 MILLION WE CAME UP WITH?
>> WHEN WE DID THE AGENDA ITEM THE OTHER NIGHT, OUR BUDGET IN ROUND NUMBERS IS $13 MILLION FOR THE FIRE DEPARTMENT THIS YEAR.
IF WE LOOK AT HOW MANY RUNS WE DID LAST YEAR, 767 OUT OF 5491.
I CAME UP WITH A LITTLE MORE THAN 13%.
13.2 OR THREE. RUNS INTO THE ESD, SO THEN I SIMPLY APPLIED 13% TO THE $13 MILLION BUDGET AND CAME UP WITH RIGHT AROUND $1.8 MILLION AS 13% OF THAT.
[00:35:02]
SO THE ESD THIS YEAR IN THE CONTRACT THEY PROPOSED A MILLION DOLLARS AND DIRECT REVENUE $262,000 IN EQUIPMENT AND FIXED ASSETS. $192,000 AS POTENTIAL EMS BILLING. 13% OF THE CURRENT ANNUAL EMS BILLING REVENUE. AND THEN THE LAST FACTOR OF THEIRS, THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR THE AUXILIARY BEHIND STATION TWO WHICH ESTIMATES $400,000 OF EQUIPMENT WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF FLOOR SPACE. THAT SHOULD COME UP TO$1.8 MILLION. >> I'M ROUNDING UP.
I GUESS IT'S 1.8. >> THANK YOU FOR ROUNDING UP.
>> WELL, I HAVE A SPREADSHEET THAT SHOWS THE LAST FIVE YEARS WHICH IN THE DIRECT PAYMENTS AND EITHER DEBT OR CONTRACT PAYMENTS HAVE BEEN RIGHT AROUND $5 MILLION THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
IN ADDITION WE HAVE ADDED ANOTHER $1.3 MILLION IN DEBT.
WHICH IS LIKE AN AMBULANCE, TWO OTHER VEHICLES, THE TRAINING CENTER AND SOME OTHER EQUIPMENT, AND THEN I'M PROJECTING THE NEXT FIVE YEARS I TOTAL OF IT $9.9 $9.9 MILLION OR JUST A LITTLE UNDER $10 MILLION AND ADDITIONAL DEBT. THIS IS BASED ON 10% INCREASE ANNUALLY IN THE TAX BASE, AND SO, I MEAN I HAVE THIS INFORMATION IF THE COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT IT.
I DO HAVE TWO MORE QUESTIONS. AND THIS ONE IS MORE PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION. EARLIER WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT ITALY AND MILFORD AND THOSE AREAS HAVING ESD, YOU SAID THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME SERVICE THAT MIDLOTHIAN PROVIDES OR ANYONE IN THE CITY PROVIDING IT. THE QUESTION IS, WHY SHOULD A COUNTY RESIDENT RECEIVE THE SAME SERVICE THAT A CITIZEN RECEIVES IN THE SENSE WE'RE SUPPLEMENTING THEM.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE NOT SUPPLEMENTING THEM, IF WE'RE GOING TO ROLL WITH THOSE NUMBERS.
WHY SHOULD THEY RECEIVE THAT SERVICE WE PROVIDE FOR OUR
RESIDENTS? >> WELL, I MEAN, IT'S BECAUSE IT IS THE AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE MADE WITH THE CITIES IN THAT, BUT WE HELPED FUND BOTH FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND WITHOUT OUR FUNDING, I MEAN, DAYLE'S BUDGET BEING FIVE MILLION LESS DOLLARS.
THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN SOME HIGHER TAXES OR LESS FIREFIGHTERS AND THAT'S WHY I SAY THIS HAS BEEN A WIN FOR BOTH THE CITY AND THE ESD RESIDENTS. AND I MEAN, I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THE COUNTY SHOULDN'T RECEIVE THE SAME. THE FACT, IS THAT WE ENTERED IN THE AGREEMENT 40 YEARS AGO AND JUST CONTINUED TO DO THAT AGREEMENT AND LIKE I SAY, THERE HAS BEEN BENEFIT TO THE CITIZENS
I BELIEVE. >> SO CAN I ALSO WEIGH IN ON
THAT? >> SO, I GUESS TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION, MY UNDERSTANDING BEFORE I WAS BORN, I KNOW IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT I WASN'T ON THE WWMAJOR FIRE COMPANY.
THE CITY AND THE I SD HAVE ALWAYS LOOKED AT OURSELVES AS ONE COMMUNITY. I REALIZE THROUGH ANNEXATION THAT HAS BECOME A POLARIZING VIEW, AND NOT EVERYBODY LOOKS AT IT THAT WAY. BUT THE INCEPTION OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AS A VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION WAS TO SERVICE OUR ISD BECAUSE THOSE FAMILIES, THEIR KIDS WERE GOING TO SCHOOL TOGETHER. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FRIENDS ON ONE SIDE OF THE CITY AND ONE SIDE IN THE ISD.
THAT'S THE PHILOSOPHICAL THAT IT'S A COMMUNITY.
VERY HURTFUL THINGS WERE SAID. FAMILIES INTEGRITY WAS HURT AND
WE GOT BLOODED >> WE GOT EMOTIONAL ABOUT THAT.
[00:40:01]
I WOULD AGREE WITH TOM THIS HAS BEEN A CAUTIONARY PARTNERSHIP.YOU KNOW, WE CAN DEBATE FIVE YEARS FROM NOW THE COST WILL BE DIFFERENT IF WE STOP THE CONTRACT, IF WE HAD NOT ENTERED INTO THE CONTRACT TODAY, THE CITIZENS OF MIDLOTHIAN HAS TO PAY MORE FOR THE SERVICES UNLESS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CUTTING FIXED COSTS AND LAYING FIREFIGHTERS OFF.
THAT'S THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE UP $1.8 MILLION IN REVENUE.
>> I DON'T WANT TO CUT YOU OFF, THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION.
HOW MUCH IN BUILDINGS THAT WE BUILT OR EQUIPMENT WE BOUGHT OR PERSONNEL DID WE NOT NEED IF WE DIDN'T SERVICE ESD?
>> ZERO. I ALWAYS PRESENTED A BUDGET BASED ON MIDLOTHIAN NEED. I HAVE NEVER SAT BEFORE CHRIS AND SAID I NEED MORE FIREFIGHTERS BECAUSE ESD IS BEATING US UP. I NEVER SAID WE NEED TO BUILD THIS STATION BECAUSE IT'S CLOSER TO ESD.
THAT'S NEVER BEEN WE APPROACH AND NEVER WILL BE.
>> LET ME JUST ADD, THE ESD SINCE 2000 HAS NEVER COME TO THE CITY AND SAY YOU HAVE TO BUILD MORE STATIONS OR HIRE MORE FIREFIGHTERS. WE WANT TO SHARE THE COSTS ON OUR TAX RATE. I WILL BE THE FIRST TO ADMIT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE COST PER RUN, WE HAVE BEEN CLOSE NORMALLY MOST YEARS WE HAVEN'T HIT THE NUMBER. BUT THE CITY STILL GOT MONEY FROM THE ESD THEY WOULD NOTHE HAVE GOTTEN.
ANOTHER THING THAT Y'ALL SHOULD KNOW IS THAT I BELIEVE IT COULD BE AND WE'RE GOING TO INCLUDE IN THE STUDY, 40% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE ESD THAT ARE IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ARE ACTUALLY EITHER IN THE OVILLA OR WAXAHACHIE OR GRAND PRAIRIE ETJ.
NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE ARE IN THE MIDLOTHIAN ETJ.
AND BUT, THE LAST THING I'M GOING TO SAY, WHEN STATION 3 WAS BUILT, THAT WAS PART OF THE SERVICE PLAN.
I WAS AT A MEETING AND DON HASTINGS SAID THAT'S PARTS OF THE SERVICE PLAN AND THAT WAS THE TRACK A I BELIEVE WAS STATION 3 WAS BUILT FOR THE ANNEXATION OF THAT AREA DOWN
SOUTH. >> TOM, I BELIEVE THAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING ALL THAT YOU CAN DO. I THINK YOU'RE HAMPERED BY STATE REGULATIONS. WHERE I'M STRUGGLING IS THE $0.65 TAX RATE THAT CITIZENS HAVE.
ROUGHLY 16 TO 17% IS FIRE OR EMS. THE COUNTY RESIDENT THE ESD IS $0.10 YOU'RE CAPPED AT AND YOU'RE TAKING ON DEBT TO JUSTIFY MAKING UP SOME OF IT.
IT'S A DEFINITE SUBSIDY. THAT'S WHAT I'M STRUGGLING WITH.
>> QUESTION. >> BUT IT WILL BE HIGHER IF YOUR MONEY GOES AWAY. IF WE KEEP THE SAME LEVEL OF THE SERVICE. YOU KNOW.
I MEAN, I'M A CITIZEN NOW. I'M TALKING TO Y'ALL AS A DISTRICT MANAGER BUT I'M ALSO A CITIZEN AND THESE ARE ARGUMENTS
I WOULD MAKE TO THE COUNCIL. >> I MIGHT PUSH BACK ON SOMETHING CHIEF SAID. OBVIOUSLY HE'S WAY MORE OF A FIRE EXPERT THAN I AM. I JUST PLAY ONE ON TODAY.
IF THE MUDS GET APPROVED, YOU HAVE 60,000, 70,000 MORE PEOPLE.
YOU WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR FIRE STATION TO SERVICE THEM
MORE APPROPRIATELY. >> I DEFINITELY AGREE IF WE WERE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THE AREAS AND NOT ALLOWED TO WORK WITH ESD TO SAY MAYBE VENUS NEEDS TO SHARE THE LOAD, IT WAS SOLELY ON THE BACKS OF THE MIDLOTHIAN FIRE DEPARTMENT AND THE INTENSITY OF USES. IF WE HAD 5000 HOMES THAT ARE SINGLE FAMILY, THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN APARTMENTS AND NURSING HOMES OR WHATEVER ELSE. THE ESD IS WILLING, I MEAN WE'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO SERVE THE AREAS.
OTHER PEOPLE WILL GLADLY TAKE THE MONEY.
>> I SAID THAT, WE DON'T EXPECT THE CITY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR
[00:45:02]
SERVICING THE PEOPLE IN ESD 2. WE FEEL LIKE THAT THE CURRENT AGREEMENT IS A WIN-WIN FOR BOTH OF US AND AS WOULD A PARTNERSHIP WHEN ONE PARTNER BELIEVES THE OTHER PARTNER YOU KNOW IT BECOMES TOO MUCH, THEN IT'S TIME TO CHANGE OR AMEND THE AGREEMENT. BUT WE JUST FEEL LIKE AS IT IS RIGHT NOW, IT'S A WIN-WIN FOR BOTH SIDES.>> WHO ELSE IS SERVING IN ESD TWO?
>> THE CITY OF OVILLA. THEIR FIRE DEPARTMENT.
THEY ANSWER TO THE AREA THAT'S ON THE NORTHEAST PART.
>> AND VENUS NOW. >> THEY ANSWER IN THEIR CITY.
THAT WAS A FLUKE HOW THAT HAPPENED.
>> CHIEF, NOT TOO LONG AGO I SAID WE DO 755 RUNS IN THE ESD WHICH IS ABOUT 13% OF OUR TOTAL RUNS, WHICH EQUATES TO $1.8 $1.8 MILLION COST TO THE CITY.
HOW MUCH FROM THE ESD DO WE GET? >> IN THIS YEAR'S PROPOSED BUDGET, SOME ARE FIXED REVENUE AND ASSETS MEANING A BUILDING OR STAIR CASE, THE TOP OF OUR TRAINING FACILITY, MY, YOU KNOW I'M NOT, PLEASE DON'T HOLD ME TO THE PENNY.
IT WAS ROUGHLY $1.8 MILLION OF REVENUE FROM THE ESD ITSELF.
>> WHAT IS THE COST TO THE CITY? >> THE COST TO WHAT?
>> SO, IF YOU'RE ASKING IF WE DID AWAY WITH THE ESD CONTRACT, COULD I SAVE $1.8 MILLION, THE ANSWER IS NO UNLESS WE FIRE
PEOPLE. >> SO PERHAPS I WAS MISTAKEN.
EARLIER YOU SAID 755 RUNS. >> 766 RUNS WHICH EQUATES TO 13% OF THE LAST FISCAL YEAR RUN VOLUME.
>> WHAT IS COST OF THAT? >> $1.8 MILLION.
>> WE'RE SAYING BOTH IS 1.8. >> I'M NOT SEEING THAT ON HERE.
>> WELL, ALL RIGHT. IF YOU HAD -- THE DIRECT FOR DEBT AND PAYMENTS TO THE CITY WILL BE $1,344,579 AND WE'RE ALSO ADDING ANOTHER $660,000 IN DEBT.
POTENTIALLY. >> WHICH WILL BE PAID OUT FOR
PERIOD. >> THAT'S NOT GUARANTEED YET.
>> IT WOULD BE DEPENDENT ON YOU ACCEPTING IT.
>> CHRIS, COULD YOU GET US AN ITEMIZED SHEET THAT TELLS US WHAT IT COSTS US AND THEN WHAT WE GET FROM THAT ESD EVERY YEAR SO WE CAN COMPARE THE TWO NUMBERS?
>> SO ONE OTHER THING FOR COUNCILMEMBER HAMMOND.
THAT SPREADSHEET WAS CREATED BY TOM AND SENT TO ME EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON. BUT, THE POTENTIAL FOR EMS REVENUE. SO THAT'S ONE THAT I ADD IN TO POTENTIAL REVENUE WHICH IS ABOUT $192,000, 13% OF OUR ANNUAL EMS BILLING, IF WE STOP RUNNING INTO THE ESD, THEN WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CAPITALIZE ON THE EMS REVENUE.
>> MR. MAYOR, IT MAYBE A LITTLE LATE TODAY.
CAN WE HAVE THE CITY MANAGER PROVIDE US THAT INFORMATION
SHORTLY IN THE FUTURE? >> THAT'S FINE.
LET ME MAKE SURE I HEARD YOUR QUESTIONS.
THE DETAILED COST OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT AND TAKING 13% OF THE NUMBER. I CAN DO THE CALCULATION.
WITH THE ESD CONTRACT AND ON THE REVENUE SECTION, YOU WILL SEE THE EMS REVENUE, WE ESTIMATED THIS YEAR ABOUT $1.4 MILLION.
SO WE TOOK 13% OF THAT NUMBER TO COME UP WITH THE $192,000.
>> IT'S 1.4 NOT 1.8. >> THE 1.4 IS WHAT WE'RE ESTIMATING FOR ALL EMS BILLINGS. IN-CITY RESIDENTS AND THAT'S ALL BILLING WE HAVE. WE'RE JUST APPLYING 13% BECAUSE 13% OF THE EMS RUNS ARE INTO THE ESD.
>> BUT WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S ACCURATE OR TO DELIVER EMS SERVICES PER CAPITA FOR EXTERNAL INDIVIDUALS THAN IT DOES FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS.
SO THOSE ARE LONGER RUNS. I IMAGINE THEY'RE TAKING LONGER
OVER THE COURSE OF SERVICE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE WEAR AND TEAR ON THE VEHICLES WHICH REQUIRES MORE MAINTENANCE.
THOSE ARE NOT EQUAL NUMBERS OVER TIME.
I WOULD SAY IT'S VERY MINOR DIFFERENCES.
OLD FARM HOUSE ESTATES IS THE FURTHEST CITY LIMITS I HAVE.
[00:50:02]
MOST OF THE ESD RESIDES IN IT. I'M STILL GOING PAST THE AREAS.I GUESS WHAT I, NOT ARGUE BUT STATE, IF WE DID NOT HAVE AND MIKE WHEN WE VISITED IN FRONT OF ACE ONE TIME WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING FOR COUNCIL, YOU MADE THE COMMENT AND I AGREE WITH YOU, YOU WERE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO BRING IN ADDITIONAL REVENUE TO THE CITY TO OFFSET THE COST TO THE CITIZEN FOR THE RESIDENT.
AND SO, I LOST MY TRAIN OF THOUGHT THERE, ED, I'M SORRY,
I'M GETTING OLD. >> THAT'S OKAY.
THIS IS A TAXING -- I IT IS. I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LOT.
>> SO, BY THE WAY, I THINK THE RANGERS ARE WINNING.
>> IF YOU'RE GOING TO PAUSE, I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS HERE.
SOMETHING, FIRST OFF I WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE BEING LATE. MY DAUGHTER HAD AN EVENT I HAD TO BE AT. I APOLOGIZE IF ANYTHING I ASK OR SAY HAS BEEN COVERED. PLEASE EXCUSE ME.
>> ONE THING YOU DID MISS, WE HAVE A HARD STOP AT 5:30.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU SAID THAT PIQUED INTEREST, THE CURRENT LEVEL OF SERVICE CAN BE MAINTAINED WITHOUT GROWING THE DEPARTMENT AS THE, AS WE GROW IN THE MUD DISTRICTS OUT HERE.
AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THAT'S POSSIBLE.
UNLESS WE ARE OVER BUILT NOW. HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE CAN TAKE ON ANOTHER 40,000, 50,000 RESIDENTS AND NOT HAVE TO BUILD
>> I'M ASSUMING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS
ABOUT 10,000 MORE PEOPLE. >> THAT'S A HUGE UNDER ESTIMATE.
>> WELL, EVERYTHING I HAVE SEEN. ENORMOUS UNDER ESTIMATE.
>> I GUESS WHAT TOM WAS SAYING EARLIER IS THAT THERE'S NOTHING THAT OBLIGATES US TO HAVE TO SERVICE THE CIRCLE S AREA.
AN ESD COULD COME TO US AND SAY, YOU'RE CITY COUNCIL AND Y'ALL DECIDED YOUR RESOURCES ARE AT THEIR LIMITS.
WE DON'T WANT TO SERVICE THE AREA.
THE ESD ALREADY HAS RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE CITY OF VENUS. THEY CAN SAY, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE ALL THE MONEY FROM CIRCLE S AND GIVE IT TO YOU AND YOU'RE
GOING TO SERVICE THE AREA. >> HOW MANY MONTHS ARE WE TALKING ABOUT BESIDES CIRCLE S AND HIGHLAND LAKES IN ESD 2?
>> IN THIS MAP ALONE, HIGHLAND LAKES.
>> LAKE SONG AND PRAIRIE RIDGE, LAKE SONG WILL BE IN THE CITY OF
GRAND PRAIRIE. >> BEFORE YOU GOT HERE, COUNCILMEMBER GARDNER, WE DISCUSSED LAKE SONG.
ALL THE ARTICLES AND ACTION OF LAKE SONG WILL BECOME THE CITY
OF GRAND PRAIRIE. >> HERE'S MY CONCERN WITH THIS AS WE'RE GOING FORWARD. WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BUILD OUT MORE INFRASTRUCTURE, NEW FIRE HOUSES, HIRE MORE FIREFIGHTERS, GROW THE DEPARTMENTS SUBSTANTIALLY IN ORDER TO SERVE. IN THIS FAST GROWING CITY AS I LOOK AT THIS, WE'RE LOSING MONEY ON EACH.
WE ARE LOSING MONEY ON EACH ONE. YOU NEVER MAKE IT UP.
THE MORE VOLUME YOU TAKE, THE MORE MONEY IT COST THE RESIDENTS. SO I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE BUSINESS MODEL. THAT WE'RE, THAT WE'RE OPERATING UNDER. THIS $350,000 TO $650,000 THAT'S A ONE OFF TO BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT'S NOT A SUSTAINABLE COST.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT NEXT YEAR.
>> THAT'S NOT CORRECT. WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO
INCREASE OUR REVENUE -- >> HOLD ON, STAND BY.
>> YOU SAID SO FAR OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS THAT IT'S BEEN WHAT? $19 MILLION. WE'RE GETTING A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR BASICALLY WE'RE LOOKING AT A $9 MILLION DELTA IN THE TWO
NUMBERS YOU QUOTED. >> $13 MILLION.
>> BUT THAT WAS JUST THIS YEAR. >> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE ESD COST OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS IS WHAT --
>> NO. I GAVE YOU JUST FIVE YEARS AND I SAID WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PAY THE CITY $5 MILLION IN FIVE YEARS. THAT'S A MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR
[00:55:03]
AVERAGE. AND AS FAR AS, I'M NOT -- I WILL ADMIT THAT IT'S PROBABLY BEEN A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS A YEAR THE DIFFERENCE, BUT MY QUESTION -->> THAT'S BEEN THE TRADITIONAL GROWTH WE HAVE HAD.
>> YES. IT'S BEEN CHANGING RAPIDLY AND IS NOW BECOMING EXPONENTIAL. SO WE HAVE GOT A HUGE TIPPING POINT THAT WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. WE EITHER HAVE TO LEAN INTO IT AND GO FULL HOG TO FUND ALL THAT THE SERVICES THAT ARE GOING TO BE REQUIRED OR WE NEED TO STEP OUT NOW BECAUSE THE ISSUE IS, WE WON'T GET THE CHOICE TO STEP BACK FROM THIS IN FIVE YEARS FROM NOW. IN FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, WHEN THE HOUSES ARE THERE AND WE BUILT THAT INFRASTRUCTURE, WE WON'T BE
ABLE TO WALK AWAY FROM IT. >> BUT WE ARE NOT ASKING THE CITY TO BUILD ANY FIRE STATIONS FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING SERVICE OUTSIDE THE CITY LIMITS.
>> SOMEBODY HAS TO. >> WELL, IT'S OUR
RESPONSIBILITY. >> BUT IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
IT'S NOT THE CITY OF MIDLOTHIAN AND WE'RE NOT ASKING THE CITY OF
MIDLOTHIAN FOR THAT. >> WHERE ARE YOUR FIRE STATIONS GOING TO BE THEN? AS IT STANDS DISTANCE WISE, WE CAN USE THE CITY OF VENUS AND MAY PEARL TO COVER CIRCLE S.
>> IN THE [INAUDIBLE] PORTION. >> THE HIGHLAND LAKES.
>> THE 500 ACRES, WE COULD, IF THE CITY DOESN'T WANT TO ANSWER IF THAT AREA, WE CAN CONTRACT WITH ESD 6.
THEY WILL HAVE 1600 ACRES TO SERVE.
>> I DO WANT TO MAKE A POINT, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTEDAL Y'ALL. AS A FIRST RESPONDER, I DON'T KNOW YOUR BUSINESS AND I APPRECIATE WHAT Y'ALL DO.
UP HERE I WEAR THE HAT AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF CITIZENS, I HAVE YET TO SPEAK TO A SINGLE CITIZEN RESIDENT OF MIDLOTHIAN THAT WANTS TO FUND CITY SERVICES OUTSIDE OF OUR CITY LIMITS.
IN ANY FORM OR FASHION. AND WITH THESE MUDS COMING ON, HOT AND HEAVY, CITIZENS ARE STARTING TO PAY ATTENTION AND GET REALLY MAD AT EVEN THE CONCEPT OF US FUNDING ANYTHING OUTSIDE OF THE CITY LIMITS ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S COSTING THE
CITY MONEY AS IT IS NOW. >> WELL --
>> THESE MUDS WILL END UP BEING CLOSE TO THE EQUIVALENT
POPULATION OF ENTIRE CITY. >> I WOULD SAY AS IT STANDS TODAY, THAT THE ESD HAS NOT ADDED ANY EXPENSE TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. WE ARE SHARING THE COST OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT YOU WOULD HAVE REGARDLESS WHETHER YOU RAN IN THE ESD OR NOT. IF YOU TOOK AWAY THE 13% OF THE RUNS, YOU WOULD STILL HAVE THE SAME FIRE DEPARTMENT YOU HAVE
NOW. >> I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION.
SORRY. >> WHY WOULD WE? IF WE DON'T HAVE TO SERVICE AS BIG OF AN AREA, WHY WOULD WE STILL FUND A FIRE DEPARTMENT FOR THAT BIG OF AN AREA?
>> YOU'RE AT MINIMUM STAFFING AT THREE STATIONS.
YOU HAVE THREE ON THE ENGINE AND THE ONLY APPARATUS YOU COULD DO AWAY IS YOUR $1.3 MILLION LADDER TRUCK.
IF YOU TOOK THAT OUT OF SERVICE --
>> TOM. I THINK I CAN ANSWER THE
QUESTION BETTER. >> SO, WE WOULD NOT BE AN I SO 1 WITHOUT THE STAFFING LEVEL WE HAVE TODAY.
OUR FIRE STATION ARE POSITIONED FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THE MIDL MIDLOTHIAN.
WE COULD BARELY FILL A FIRE ALARM ONE.
WOULD WE LOSE 13% OF RUN VOLUME? IF WE DON'T GO THE ESD? YES. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE LEVEL OF SERVICE THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY PROVIDED IS NOT NEEDED FOR THE CURRENT LEVEL OF CITIZENS WE HAVE FOR THE CITY OF MIDLOTHIAN.
>> IF YOU DROPPED YOUR ROLLING STOCK FROM TRAVELLING 13% OF THE VOLUME OF TRAVEL, OVER THE YEARS THIS HAS TO HAVE HAD A 13 TO 15 WE THINK AFFECT ON ROLLING STOCK.
>> SURE. I MEAN EVERY TIME THE TRUCK ROLLS, THERE'S MAINTENANCE INVOLVED.
>> BUT IF YOU LOOK AT OUR BUDGET, 88 PERCENT IS SALARY AND BENEFITS. 12% IS HOW WE OPERATE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. AND IF YOU, IF WE CUT THE CONTRACT, WHICH IS FINE, WE CAN CUT THE CONTRACT, I HAVE FUNCTIONAL QUESTIONS. I CAN SAVE MONEY IN FUEL.
[01:00:04]
I MIGHT SAVE MONEY IN MAINTENANCE AND A FEW DOLLARS IN THE EMS BUDGET AS FAR AS BUYING MATERIALS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET ANYWHERE CLOSE TO $1.8 MILLION IN SAVINGS AS FARAS WHAT I CAN TELL. >> I WANT TO KNOW ONENING ON THIS, WHAT IS THE PERCENTAGE OF EMS VERSUS FIRE CALLS FOR THE
>> OUTSIDE OF THE CITY LIMITS. DO WE HAVE THE NUMBERS?
>> IT APPLIES ACROSS THE BOARD. 65% OF WHAT WE DO.
I CAN GO OUT AND GET YOU A DETAILED SPREADSHEET ON HOW MUCH REVENUE WE HAVE TAKEN IN FROM THE ESD OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IF THAT'S HELPFUL. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE --
>> I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BALANCE OF RESOURCES.
IF WE'RE DEALING WITH 90% OF OUR CALLS ARE AMBULANCE RELATED EMS CALLS, THAT'S A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF SERVICE THAN HAVING A FULLY STAFFED FIRE DEPARTMENT TO RESPOND TO NOT ONLY EMS BUT FIRE IN THAT AREA. SO, THERE'S TWO, THAT'S DIFFERENT LEVELS OF SERVICE. AND I DON'T SEE WE WOULD HAVE TO BUILD UP AN ENTIRE FIRE DEPARTMENT IF ALL WE'RE DOING IS ROLLING THE EMS CALLS. THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND THE BALANCE. >> FAIR POINT.
65% IS EMS RELATED. WHEN YOUR HOUSE CATCHES FIRE, I CAN'T PUT IT OUT WITH BALANCES. WE NEED A MINIMUM OF 17 PEOPLE ON SCENE TO MEET THAT STANDARD TO BE OPERATING IN THAT ENVIRONMENT. I WILL YIELD TO YOU THAT MOST OF OUR CALLS ARE NOT STRUCTURE FIRES, WHEN WE HAVE THEM, YOU'RE PAYING FOR A STATIC STAND BY RESOURCE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT TO
PUT THE FIRES OUT. >> I AGREE.
YOU STATED IT PRETTY WELL, WE'RE PAYING FOR THAT STAFFING LEVEL AND THAT SERVICE LEVEL FOR THE RESIDENTS OF MIDLOTHIAN AND THEY'RE PAYING FOR IT OUT OF THEIR TAX DOLLARS.
THE ESD IS NOT FULLY FUNDING AT THE SAME LEVEL AS THE CITIZENS.
SO AS WE GROW, WE'RE GOING TO DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF RESIDENTS THAT ARE COVERED BY THE FIRE DEPARTMENT BUT ONLY HALF OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE PAYING THE FULL SHARE.
SO, IT'S GOING TO EITHER RESULT IN WORSE FIRE SERVICES FOR EVERYONE INCLUDING THE CITIZENS OF MIDLOTHIAN OR CITIZENS OF MIDLOTHIAN WILL HAVE TO PAY MORE MONEY AND COME UP WITH MORE OUT OF THEIR POCKET TO FUND IT. THOSE ARE OUR ONLY TWO OPTIONS
AS WITH GROWS. >> OR WE LIMIT IN THE GROWTH AREAS THAT WE DO NOT INCLUDE THOSE AREAS IN THE FUTURE CONTRACTS. THIS IS A THIRD OPTION.
THAT WOULD NOT, THAT WOULD ALLOW THE CITY TO MAINTAIN THE FUNDING FROM THE ESD AND WOULD NOT TAX THE FIRE DEPARTMENT
>> LET ME OFFER A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
I AM IN A FORTUNATE SITUATION. MY DAD WAS ACTUALLY ON THE BOARD
HE WAS THE TREASURER ON THE BOARD THAT MADE THE DECISION FOR THIS AGREEMENT. SO I CALLED HIM TODAY.
I WANTED TO GET HISTORICAL BACKGROUND.
HAVING LIVED HERE SINCE 1982, IT ALSO GIVES ME A HISTORICAL BENEFIT TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE REASON THAT SHOULD HAVE EVOLVED THEN WHICH IT WAS A GOOD IDEA. DAVE SHROTE AND MY FAMILY ALL WENT TO MIDLOTHIAN BIBLE CHURCH FOR 30 YEARS TOGETHER.
WE ALSO I CAN'T SPEAK FOR DAVID BUT I KNOW MY FAMILY AND MR. PULLIN, WE DIDN'T LIVE IN THE CITY AND WE BENEFITTED FROM THIS. THE CITY OF MIDLOTHIAN IN 1984, 85 WAS ONLY A HINT OF WHAT IT IS TODAY.
IT WAS THE INNERLOOP. A SMALL NUCLEUS, THE PROBLEM WAS THAT MANY OF US WHOM WENT TO CHURCH TOGETHER AND MADE THE COMMUNITY GO SO TO SPEAK, MANY OF THE TEACHERS LIVED HERE.
WE HAD A MUCH MORE OF A COMMUNITY ASPECT.
SO IT WAS ONLY NORMAL AND WOULD THOUGHT OF AS GOOD INSIGHT TO,
[01:05:01]
WE WERE MORE COMMUNITY ASPIRED FROM LOOKING AT IT FROM A SCHOOL DISTRICT STANDPOINT. A MUCH LARGER PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE IT WAS ONLY A LITTLE NUCLEUS OF ABOUT I'M GUESSING 37 TO 4200 PEOPLE. OF COURSE, I CALLED DAD TODAY AND I WANTED TO SEE, HOW DID THE VOTE GO ON THE ORIGINAL BOARD.HE SAID IT WAS UNANIMOUS. NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER.
I SAID WELL HOW DID YOU KNOW? HE SAID SON, MY DAD IS A MATH PROFESSOR. HE HAS A DOCTORATE IN MATHEMATICS AND TEACHES STATISTICAL INFORMATION.
THAT'S ALL HE'S DONE ALL HIS LIFE.
I WAS THE WON WHO RAN THE MATH ON IT.
IT DIDN'T TAKE US AND PROBLEM WHATSOEVER UNDERSTANDING THIS WAS REAL GOOD FOR THE EMERGENCY OF THE ESD.
WE ALSO HAD A PROBLEM THAT WE ONLY HAD ABOUT $70,000 IN THE BANK. AND WE KNEW THAT WE COULD NOT AFFORD FIRE TRUCKS AND TO BUILD A STATION AND WHAT NOT, THE OTHER PROBLEM EXISTED, NOT A PROBLEM BUT THE SCENARIO TO HELP THE COMMUNITY AS A WHOLE, THAT WE WERE TIED TOGETHER AS AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND MIDLOTHIAN WAS THE INNER NUCLEUS, GETTING TO POINT THEY NEEDED A FULL FIRE STATION.
I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND AT THAT POINT IN TIME HOW IT WORKED OUT.
IT'S IN MY BELIEF FROM STUDYING THE NUMBERS.
I DO BELIEVE THE BURDEN ON THE TAXPAYER IS SMALLER NOW THAN IT WAS BEFORE. BUT I DO BELIEVE THERE WAS A GAP TIME THAT THE RESIDENTS DIDN'T EVEN REALIZE IT THAT IT WAS ESPECIALLY WHEN THE COLLECTIONS FROM THE COUNTY SIDE AND THERE WAS NO EXTRA INPUT AND THE VOLUME OF OUTER NUCLEI WAS LARGER, I BELIEVE THE BURDEN WAS MUCH LARGER.
I WILL GIVE A RANGE FROM '04 TO '12.
I DO BELIEVE IT'S SMALLER. I HAVE DONE ALL THE BACKGROUND RESEARCH I COULD. THAT'S MY TAKE ON THE BACKGROUND. ANA, I'M GOING TO JUMP IN.
I'M GOING TO HAVE TO STEP OUT IN A SECOND.
FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.
SURE. >> WHAT I NEED TO SEE IS TO SEE SOMETHING THAT SHOWS A LONG-TERM PLAN.
I HEAR YOU SAYING HEY WE'RE NOT ASKING Y'ALL TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE. I HEARD YOU SAY IT I THINK YOU SAID FIVE TIMES -- BECAUSE IT'S THE TRUTH.
>> I THINK WE HAVE BEEN ASSUMING ON OUR END, OH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SERVE ALL THESE PEOPLE.
IS THERE A PLAN IN PLACE OR WILL THERE BE ONE COMING?
>> THERE WILL BE I'M PROJECTING BY MARCH FIRST.
>> THAT WILL SHOW PROJECTION AND GROWTH.
>> IT WILL BE -- WHAT YOU WANT FROM US AND WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO ASK OTHER PEOPLE AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF?
>> WE WILL TRY TO GET A GOOD HANDLE ON THESE MUDS AS FAR AS POPULATION GROWTH, NO, IT'S GOING TO BE EXTREMELY
BUT IT WILL ALSO INCLUDE WHAT THE CURRENT LEVEL AND THE CURRENT FUNDING FROM THE ESD TO THE CITY AND THEN IT WILL SHOW
THE FUTURE. >> AND YOU THINK THAT THE OTHER SURROUNDING DEPARTMENTS THAT YOU HAVE CONTRACTS WITH, THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO FILL IN IF WE WERE TO SAY HEY, GO ASK THEM TO COVER THAT AREA AND WE'RE GOING TO STICK TO OUR AREA?
>> I BELIEVE SO. THEY HAVE GROWTH IN THEIR AREA TOO. THEY WILL HAVE TO UPGRADE THEIR SERVICES. OTHER THAN CIRCLE S AND HIGHLAND LAKES, WHAT WERE MUDS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO BE IN ESD 2? THE ONES OUT EAST, PRAIRIE RIDGE IS A FRESH WATER DISTRICT.
LAKE SONG WILL BE GRAND PRAIRIE'S PROBLEM.
OTHER THAN CIRCLE S, WHICH I SAID WITH ONE SENTENCE REMOVE THAT FROM THE CURRENT AGREEMENT IF IT APPEARS IT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. HIGHLAND LAKES WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT. WE COULD GO WITH ESD 6 BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE 1600 ACRES THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SERVE AND I BELIEVE THEY WILL END UP BUILDING A FIRE STATION THERE.
>> LET ME ASK A QUESTION ABOUT THAT, TOM.
I GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. WE CAN PULL ANY OF THE AREAS OUT. WOULDN'T THAT ALSO PULL THE
REVENUE AWAY? >> THERE'S NO REVENUE THERE NOW.
IT'S ALL IN AG. SO IT WOULDN'T AND OUR EXISTING TAX BASE WILL CONTINUE TO APPRECIATE.
SO THERE WILL BE ADDITIONAL FUNDING.
PLUS THERE'S GOING TO BE GROWTH AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S A STREET HERE AND A STREET THERE THEY KEEP ADDING.
I KNOW WE'RE COMING TO A CLOSE. I WOULD SAY, SINCE I GOT HERE
[01:10:07]
IN '07, WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THE SAME QUESTION.DOES THE ESD COVER 100% OF THE COST.
>> I THINK YOU HAVE DONE AN EXCELLENT JOB OF DOING EVERYTHING WITHIN THE $0.10 LIMITATION YOU HAVE TO GIVE US EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING TO MAKE OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT WHAT IT IS TODAY. I THINK THAT IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT MOVING FORWARD JUST LIKE IT'S DIFFICULT TODAY FOR IT TO EVER COVER 100% OF THE COST TO RUN INTO THE ESD ON A PERPETUAL BASIS AT THE $0.10 LIMITATION.
NOW TALKING TO COUNCIL, IT'S THIS IS THE SAME PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION WE HAVE HAD SINCE I GOT HERE.
WASN'T BECAUSE I GOT HERE. CAN WE OR DO WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE THAT WAY OR DO WE NOT? WE CAN RUN NUMBERS ALL DAY LONG. THEY'RE GOING TO ALWAYS COME BACK TO THE SAME THINK Y'ALL HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE COVERED 100% EVERY SINGLE YEAR.
SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO COME BACK TO DO WE CONTINUE TO SERVE AT AND KIND OF DEFICIT OR SUBSIDY IN THIS CASE OR DO WE NOT? AND THEN AT THAT POINT, IF THAT'S IT IS CHOICE THIS COUNCIL MAKES TO THE CHIEF, WE HAVE TO START TALKING ABOUT SOME OTHER ISSUES ABOUT HOW TO PROVIDE SERVICE WHEN YOU START GOING IN AND OUT OF THE DISTRICT.
YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE BOUNDARY LINES AND DONUT HOLES THAT HAVE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENTS. IF THEY DEVELOP THEY WILL COME INTO THE CITY. THOSE ARE FUNCTIONAL THINGS, BASED ON THE DECISION YOU MAKE, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS HOW TO FUNCTIONALLY PROVIDE THE SERVICE IN THE
FIELD. >> I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE DONUT HOLES, THAT WAS ANOTHER QUESTION I HAD.
SO THE DONUT HOLE THEORY, I HAVE BEEN HEARING THAT OUR DONUT HOLES IN THE CITY THAT THOSE, THE ANNEXED AREAS IN.
THAT IS A REASON TO PROVIDE SERVICES TO THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE IN OUR CITY. YOU PASS THROUGH ON YOUR WAY TO SO-AND-SO OR WHATEVER. WHICH I AGREE WITH.
HOWEVER, AREAS LIKE LAKESONG, IN GRAND PRAIRIE IS COVERING THEM, DON'T WE CREATE ANOTHER DONUT HOLE GOING THE OTHER WAY?
>> NO BECAUSE PRAIRIE RIDGE PRETTY WELL BUTTS UP TO, IT WILL
BE CLOSE TO THE WEST SIDE. >> ON MY MAP, THERE'S A WHOLE OTHER AREA WE HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH.
>> OKAY. I MEAN YEAH, NOW THAT -- THAT'S THE AREA THAT GRAND PRAIRIE IS ALSO GOING TO PROBABLY
>> BUT ALSO TOO, THE AREAS IN THE DONUT HOLE, I MAYBE WRONG, ARE PART THE ANNEXATION AND SIGNED DEVELOPER AGREEMENTS.
THAT WAS A CITY DECIDED TO DO A DEVELOPER AGREEMENT.
>> AND WE HAD TO. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
I THINK WE'VE GOT A MECHANISM THIS PLACE THAT THOSE CAN COME INTO THE CITY. IT'S NOT THEM HAVING TO
VOLUNTARILY ANNEX >> CAN I ASK THIS QUESTION? BECAUSE CHRIS MADE THE STATEMENT OF YOU'RE DOING EVERYTHING YOU CAN. IS THIS PAPER YOU PROVIDED ME AS
ACCURATE AS IT CAN BE? >> IT'S BASED ON THE OTHER FOUR
YEARS FROM OUR AUDITS. >> YOUR MAX TAX RATE IS 10% YOU
>> WE HAD TO LOWER A LITTLE BECAUSE WE GOT INTO A PROBLEM
WITH THE TAX RATE. >> THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING HERE.
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS THEY'RE DOING ALL WE CAN.
>> WE'RE $20,000 BELOW. THE DIFFERENCE IS $20,000 OR
$30,000. >> ON THE DIFFERENCE OF THE FIVE. THAT WAS MY FIRST QUESTION, HOW ARE YOU DOING ALL YOU CAN IF WE'RE NOT COLLECTING THE MAX RATE. ? WHAT HAPPENED IN 2022-2023 WHICH I GUESS WE'RE OR WE FINISHED THAT YEAR. WE RECEIVE ABOUT 70% OF YOUR FUNDS TO GO TODAYS OUR ESD AND DROP TO 66 AND BOUNCED BACK UP.
>> THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS BECAUSE OUR TAX BASE INCREASED BY 24 POINT 86 CENTS, WE HAD TO PAY OFF PAST DEBT OR WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO LOWER BECAUSE OF NEW SENATE BILL, WHAT IS IT? 2. WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TO LOWER OUR TAX RATE. THERE WAS NO OTHER
>> LAST ONE AND I'M OUT. >> ALL RIGHT.
IS THERE ANYTHING DONE AT THE STATE LEVEL TO FIGHT THE $0.10?
[01:15:02]
>> IT'S BROUGHT UP EVERY TWO YEARS AND THEY HAVE TRIED EVERY WAY AND THEY HAVE TRIED TO DO IT TO WHERE DEBT, WE BELONG TO SAFETY. IT'S, OUR ACTUAL LAW FIRM IS THE LOBBYING FOR EMERGENCY SERVICE DISTRICTS AND I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU THAT IT'S JUST TWO YEARS AWAY BUT I'M GOING TO SAY I DON'T SEE IT HAPPENING. JUST THERE'S NO AND Y'ALL KNOW THIS, AT THE LEGISLATURE FOR ANY KIND OF WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PROPERTY TAXES, NOBODY WANTS TO VOTE TO INCREASE CAPS.
>> TOM, IS ESD INTERESTED IN GOING AFTER SALES TAX
THAT WOULD BE PART OF OUR AGREEMENT, OUR STUDY.
BUT, I, THERE'S A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS.
WHEN I TALK TO PROVIDENCE. THEY SAID GRAND PRAIRIE WAS GOING TO BE A LIMITED ANNEXATION TO PRAIRIE RIDGE.
THE REASON AND I WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO CLYDE AND THE STAFF AT LENGTH ABOUT THIS, BUT, TO WHERE THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO GET THE SALES TAX. BUT, WE STILL HAVE OTHER AREAS
THAT WOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. >> I WANT TO SAY BEFORE WE RUN OUT OF TIME. THANK YOU FOR COMING HERE
>> IT'S NOT EASY TO STAND THERE. >> THIS IS MY --
>> THIS IS MY 5TH OR SIXTH TIME SINCE 2000 AM
>> YOU DO IT WELL. I WOULD SAY THE NUMBER I WOULD SAY IS A MILLION FIVE. IS WHAT THE ESD, I WOULD BE COMFORTABLE ARGUING THAT NUMBER. $1.5 MILLION.
>> THANK YOU, SIR. >> THAT GOES WITH MY QUESTION.
RIGHT NO WE'RE AT $0.10 WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
IS THAT ON IMPROVED OR IS THAT ON TOTAL ASSESSED VALUE OF
POTENTIAL PROPERTY? >> IT'S TAXABLE ASSESSED VALUE.
THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE THE DYNAMIC AS WELL.
WE'RE GOING FROM EXTREME RURAL TO URBAN.
I'M CURIOUS HOW THAT WILL SWAY THE CALCULATION.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT HIGHER DENSITY IN THE AREAS AND THE PROPERTY VALUES ARE GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER.
I'M CURIOUS HOW THAT WILL AFFECT.
>> OUR AVERAGE MARKET -- >> YOU'RE BUDGETING FOR HIGHER
GROWTH. >> OUR AVERAGE MARKET IS $554,000. IT'S THE HIGHEST DIFFERENCE THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN. I'M WILLING Y'ALL HAVE SEEN THE SAME THING. I ALSO WOULD SAY, MYSELF OR ANY OF THE BOARD MEMBERS WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO MEET WITH ANY COUNCILMEMBERS ONE-ON-ONE. WE WANT TO DO THIS STUDY.
WE WANT TO BE CONTINUED PARTNERS BUT WE ALSO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE ISSUES AND THE MUDS ARE JUST ADDING MORE ISSUES.
BUT I WOULD JUST HOPE WE CAN ALL JUST CONTINUE TO TALK AND COME
UP WITH THE BEST SOLUTION. >> TOM, ONE MORE QUICK COMMENT.
>> YES. I GUESS MY PRIMARY ISSUE IS TOTALLY ENCIRCLED AROUND THE MUDS.
TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT THE THREE TO FOUR MUDS THAT WE HAVE NOW SO THAT'S A CONSTANT.
BUT JUST TWO TO THREE YEARS AGO, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A MUD
>> HERE'S WHERE I'M AT. GOING BACK TO WHAT ED TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. THAT IF WE HAVE THREE MUDS THIS YEAR, AND A COUPLE THREE YEARS WE COULD HAVE SIX.
AND A FEW MORE WE COULD HAVE 12 OR 15, AND THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE. LOOKING AT PLACES LIKE ENNIS.
WE WOULD LIKE TO THINK THEY'RE HUGE MONSTROSITIES.
WE HAVE AND IN ENNIS 1200 FOLKS. SO I BELIEVE THAT THE DEVELOPERS ONCE THEY GET PRIVY TO THIS WILL START GOING INTO A MUD WHERE THEY COULD UPGRADE THEIR MUD SERVICES TO LATCH ON JUST KIND OF LIKE WE DO SEWER LIFT STATIONS AND EVERYTHING ELSE.
WE'RE GOING TO END UP WITH MUDS STACKED ON TOP OF MUDS.
I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO FIND IN TIME, THE LANDSCAPE WILL FILL IN AND WE'RE GOING TO TURN INTO THE, A NUCLEUS OF WHAT USED TO
BE AND WE'RE GOING TO BE SERVED. >> THE STUDY, I DO WANT IT TO INCLUDE ALL THE LARGE TRACTS OF LAND THAT COULD BE DEVELOPED.
DOWN SOUTH IT'S THE BIG AREA. BUT, MOST OF OTHER PART, THERE ARE NOT MULTI-HUNDRED ACRE TRACTS IN THE OTHER PART OF THE
[01:20:01]
ESD. >> I ASK WHEN YOU DO THAT, DO THOSE IN 50 TO 60 FOOT WIDE LOTS.
>> OH, NO. I'M PLANNING ON THREE POINT WHATEVER LIKE PRAIRIE RIDGE. I WOULD GUESS THAT'S THE KIND OF
DENSITY. >> IS IT POSSIBLE TO REDRAW THIS IN ORDER TO NOT INCLUDE MUDS AS THAT COME INTO FRUITION?
>> ABSOLUTELY. >> CAN WE PUT A POLICY IN PLACE WE WILL SERVICE AS WE HAVE AND NOT MUDS?
>> YOU SEE? Y'ALL UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M
ASKING, RIGHT? >> I THINK IT CAN BE DONE.
>> BUT, THEN WE GET BACK INTO THE FUNCTIONAL.
IF CIRCLE S COMES OUT, THERE'S STILL HOLES HERE.
WE CAN TAKE THOSE OUT TOO. AT WHAT POINT ARE WE GOING TO BE CHECKER BOARD PATTERN? AT SOME POINT WE HAVE TO GET BACK INTO FUNCTIONALLY, HOW DO WE RESPOND TO THE AREAS WHEN WE ARE PULLING MIXING MATCH. ANY TIME A MUD SHOWS UP, WE JUST PULL IT OUT? THAT WAS TO ANA'S POINT.
TAKE LAKE SONG EVEN IF YOU TOOK PRAIRIE RIDGE, THERE'S A WHOLE AREA THAT GOES TO 360 THAT WE'RE RUNNING TO TODAY.
GOT TO FIND ANOTHER WAY TO SERVE THAT
>> IT'S THE SAME THING. KEEP IN MIND, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ESD TWO. WE ALSO SERVE THE CITY OF OVILLA. IF WE, IF WE'RE GOING TO NOT DO THAT ANYMORE, WE WOULD BE RUNNING THROUGH ESD 2.
>> WE CAN SET A POLICY FOR CONTIGUOUS.
>> I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND CONTINUING SERVING OVILLA.
>> THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. IF IT'S NOT CONTIGUOUS, WE DON'T SERVE IT. THAT WOULD SOLVE THAT PROBLEM.
THERE'S A FUNCTIONAL STAND POINT OF HOW ARE WE GOING TO PROVIDE
SERVICES IN THOSE AREAS? >> MAYOR, WE'RE RUNNING UP TO TIME. I WANTED TO SAY FIRST OFF BY NATURE, I AM SERVICE ORIENTED. BY GOAL IS TO SERVICE THE COMMUNITY. I THINK MIKE SAID IT A FEW WEEKS BACK. FINALLY HAD AN EPIPHANY.
HE SAID, DAYLE, YOU WON'T EVER BE ABLE TO AGREE WITH ME BECAUSE OF YOUR FUNCTION AS THE FIRE CHIEF.
AND IT IS HARD. YOU'RE ASKING ME TO RETHINK THINGS THAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR DECADES.
AND WHEN MY MIND GOES THERE, I GO TO THE FUNCTIONALITY PART OF IT. THE PART THAT WHEN WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN FOUR TREES AND OLD FARM HOUSE ESTATE THAT IS PAY CITY TAXES AND DRIVE THEIR KID TO WALNUT GROVE MIDDLE SCHOOL AND GO THROUGH TWO SECTIONS OF THE ROAD THAT ARE NOT IN THE CITY AND THEY HAVE A WRECK, AND THE DISPATCHER IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT DO WE DELIVER SERVICES TO THE PERSON OR NOT? WE CAN ALL ARGUE WE HAVE LINES EVERYWHERE. I GET IT.
WHEN I GO TO WAXAHACHIE, YOU DON'T EXPECT MIDLOTHIAN TO RESPOND TO MY EMERGENCY. THERE'S ALSO A REASONABLE EXPECTATION FOR SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE TO THINK THEY'RE STILL WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. THOSE ARE THE CHALLENGES I WOULD SAY. I NEED GUIDANCE ON IF WE DECIDE THIS IS NOT A PATH WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO GO DOWN.
BECAUSE THOSE ARE GOING TO BE THE AREAS THAT ARE THE MOST
DYSFUNCTIONAL. >> CHRIS, I HAVE TWO QUICK QUESTIONS. ARE ALL OF OUR SCHOOLS WITHIN
IT'S IN OVILLA. >> AND THERE'S GOING TO BE ONE
IN PRAIRIE RIDGE TWO. >> NUMBER TWO QUESTION WOULD BE, I'M ASSUMING THAT WHERE I'M NOT A HUGE PROPONENT OF FORCED ANNEXATION, IF FOLKS WANT TO RECEIVE SERVICE, SHOULD THEY LOSE THIS, COULD THEY VOLUNTARY ANNEX IN? COULD THAT REQUIRE THEY ARE CONTIGUOUS TO OUR BORDERS OR
NOT? >> THAT'S GOING TO BE, WELL, A COUPLE THINGS. I DON'T KNOW IT HAS TO BE CONTIGUOUS. THERE'S PROVISIONS ABOUT SPECIAL DISTRICTS FOR SURE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN VENUS WHERE THEY JUMP. I THINK THAT MIGHT BE SOME OF THE SPECIAL DISTRICT LEGISLATION.
>> THE POLICY QUESTION YOU HAVE TO ASK AND I HAVE USED THE EXAMPLE BEFORE. LET'S GO DOWN TO JORDAN RUN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL. WOULD YOU TAKE THAT WHOLE NEIGHBORHOOD AND RUN THROUGH THE COUNTY ESD AND OTHER AREAS TO GET TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD? IT'S GOING TO BE A PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION THE COUNCIL HAS TO ANSWER AND HOW DO WE PROVIDE
SERVICES? >> DOES THAT GO ON IN OTHER CITIES? DO WHAT?
>> DOES THAT NOT GO ON IN OTHER CITIES?
[01:25:02]
>> IT PROBABLY DOES. I'M JUST SAYING, I THINK EVERY TIME THAT A NEIGHBORHOOD OR RESIDENT OR SOMEBODY COMES AND ASKS TO BE IN THE CITY, IT'S UP TO THE COUNCIL WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO ACCEPT THEM AND TAKE ON THAT FUNCTIONAL ISSUE OF GETTING TO THEM. I THINK IT CAN HAPPEN.
>> COUNCILMEMBER RODGERS, YOU SAID THIS BEFORE TOO, I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE ALL CLEAR, UNLESS YOU'RE ASKING ME TO BUILD A WALL AROUND OUR CITY AND WE NEVER LEAVE IT, WE'RE GOING TO BE OUT THERE SERVICING THAT AREA AT SOME POINT.
EITHER THROUGH MUTUAL AID OR IS ALL THE CITIES THAT TAKE IN THE AREA, WE HAVE MUTUAL AID AGREEMENTS WITH TODAY.
SO, WE WILL SPEND A PORTION OF OUR TIME OUT THERE JUST LIKE WE
ASK PEOPLE TO COME HELP US. >> LAST COMMENT.
>> MY ONLY CONCERN WITH ALL THIS AS WE'RE GROWING INTO THESE MUDS SHOULD WE GO THAT ROUTE, IS THAT, IT WILL INEVITABLY CAUSE US TO DEGRADE SERVICE BECAUSE THE FUNDING WON'T BE THERE.
IN OTHER WORDS, IF $0.16 IS WHAT WE'RE DELIVERING IN THE CITY LIMITS AND ONLY GETTING $0.10 FOR EVERYBODY ELSE AND HALF OF THE PEOPLE WE'RE GOING TO SERVE ARE ONLY GOING TO BE 10%.
THAT'S A 13% NET ACROSS THE BOARD WHICH MEANS SERVICES GO DOWN. I DON'T THINK THAT'S ACCEPTABLE.
>> SURE. >> MIKE, FINAL COMMENTS?
ALLEN? >> THANK Y'ALL FOR COMING OUT AND ALL THE INFORMATION. APPRECIATE IT.
>> MY HOPE IS I BELIEVE YOUR CONCERNS ARE VALID.
I THINK THEY CAN BE ADDRESSED. OUR JOB IS TO ADDRESS THOSE
CONCERNS. >> I WILL MAKE THE STATEMENT THIS IS A COMPLEX ISSUE THAT'S GOING TO DEFINITELY WARRANT MORE DISCUSSION. HUD HAS ASKED FOR A REPORT FROM CHRIS. I ASK YOU SEND THAT OUT TO THE ENTIRETY OF THE COUNCIL AND ANNA ASKED ABOUT A REPORT COMING MARCH TIME FRAME. I GUESS SO MY REQUEST TO THE COUNCIL WOULD BE FOR US TO CONTINUE THESE DISCUSSIONS AND ALSO AWAIT THE REPORT AND GET FEEDBACK FROM THE REPORT IN THE MARCH TIME FRAME AND DRIVE WAY DEEPER INTO IT.
IF DECISIONS ARE GOING TO BE MADE TO MAKE CHANGES.
WE WILL HAVE THE DIFFICULT TASK TO THAT CHIEF SAID, WHAT SERVICES WILL NEED TO BE ADJUSTED.
IN THE COUNCIL IS OKAY WITH THAT, WE WILL AWAIT THE MARCH REPORT AND GATHER AGAIN. OKAY.
>> I LOOK FORWARD. >> THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT, TOM.
>> THANKS Y'ALL
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.